I’m glad you put it this way. It seems that when we Christians use the phrase, “From the point of view of the Bible”, or “That’s Biblical” or “That’s not Biblical”, we are often taking one part of the Bible and blowing it out of proportion. Not everyone does this, but it happens enough that I am wary when people use such phrases, and I try to avoid it myself (though I sometimes slip).

It reminds me of the joke about the Baptist pastor and the Methodist minister who kept on going on about how the other was wrong, until they met, and after a very amiable discussion, the Baptist concluded, “Well, I guess we can agree that we both are serving God: You, in your way, and I in His”.

If God’s Word to us could fit in a cartoon tract, I suspect He would have given us a cartoon tract. It is true that the gospel is simple, but it’s like the ad for the game Othello: “A minute to learn, a lifetime to master”. The fact is there are aspects of following Christ that I didn’t fully appreciate when I first accepted Jesus. And not because it wasn’t in His Word: rather, there’s a tendency to act in conformity to the people around you, and there are many churches where the culture is somewhat in line with what God wants, but not wholly so (see the messages to the seven churches in Revelation, for instance). It is only when you read the Bible more and see it lived in Christians who you are NOT used to hanging out with, that it is possible to see where this has happened. It’s surprising the effect of widely-disseminated teaching materials has in giving people a narrow view of the Bible.

All through this, I agree that we need to use the Bible to see if what the other group is doing is right, but my experience has shown me that it is often true that any given group has something that is right, even if it has many things that are wrong. And what they have right may be what God is trying to teach me.

I am hesitant to claim to have a “Biblical worldview”. I have tried to let the Bible speak to me, and let God shape my view through it, and I recognize that my worldview today is different than when I was first a Christian, I think in ways that are more Biblical. But this experience has led me to doubt that I have arrived, and need no further instruction. I read my Bible partly because I expect that God will further transform my worldview more and more into a Biblical worldview. I furthermore expect that some things I think of as “Biblical” I will one day discover are not Biblical at all, but come from reading the Bible through my cultural lens.

The fact is, I doubt anyone has a Biblical worldview. What we have is our worldview, which is perhaps informed in small or large part by what the Bible has to say. And there is no way of my knowing how Biblical my worldview is, unless God decides to reveal that to me.

So when someone makes a claim about a survey correlating opinions of some sort with whether they have a “Biblical worldview”, I suspect that what they mean is “my worldview”, and I wonder what their worldview is.

>Leaders can’t make us righteous, but their influence shouldn’t be discounted. We learn from the Bible that hardships come to a nation under poor leadership. To withdraw from politics would be ignoring the problems that result from unGodly leaders. It would be wise to elect Godly leaders, ones that respect God and understand their privileged position and that they are accountable to Him.

I do agree that we are sometimes called to be concerned about political issues and get involved. But we must be careful.

Yes, sometimes God punishes a nation for its leadership. But we must remember what the leadership has power over. Amos warned Israel about its lack of concern for the poor. Elijah warned about Ba’al worship. Isaiah warned about the lack of justice. And people are punished because they did not repent. But some of these things were the result of people, and others as a result of the king.

Our elected leaders determine our laws and punishments for offenses, and what to do with our military forces. And there is much that the Bible says about what is just and unjust aboht this. So electing leaders who understand and are moved by what the Bible says about this would make sense.

But there are other cases where the leaders have no real power. A leader may say that homosexuality is a sin, but this doesn’t change the rate at which it happens. A leader may give all his money to the poor, but that doesn’t mean anyone else will follow suit.

> Also, leaders can be an example to others by standing upon principle when the culture may be driven more by emotion, or interested in populist ideas.

More visible than politicians would be our athletes and popular musicians. Many people look to those as role models. It is true that when I grew up, some people wanted to be president, but not a *single* person I knew said they wanted to be like Jimmy Carter or Gerald Ford.

>Legislators can pass unjust laws (or unfortunately, judges may try to legislate their personal political opinions) to restrict our religious freedoms. We are blessed (not arbitrarily, but due to the faithfulness of those that have come before us) to have the freedoms we do in this country,

Although I am glad to live in a country where I am not persecuted for my faith, we must always remember that this situation is not necessary or even healthy for Christianity. Christianity spread rapidly under persecution in the Roman Empire, and often went astray when it was in a privledged position politically. Even today, it is easy to marvel at the great spiritual growth happening in China, Burma, and other places where Christians are severely limited in what they are allowed to do.

I am glad I do not have to suffer torture or imprisonment for my faith, but this gladness is a personal weakness. For Paul, “to live is Christ, and to die is gain”. I sometimes think I could measure up to that, but I suspect that if I actually had to go through the same thing, I might be more dismayed. Perhaps that is why God put me here, and not in Burma. At least until I am strong enough to go through it. And when the time of testing arrives (and as Jesus says, “In this world, you will have tribulation”) I hope I will be prepared (as Jesus continues, “But take heart: I have overcome the world”).

We must be careful that we do not take our freedom to worship and put it in the same category as our call to be a force for good in this world. We are called to be Christ’s ambassadors, not to fight for our rights.

Now, as an American, I can appreciate the ideals of the founding fathers and recognize that their call for religious toleration was wise. And I can grieve every time those ideals are not attained in our current government. But I grieve as an American, not as a Christian, for I cannot find these American ideals in the Bible. And the Bible says I am not of this world, so I’m not sure I should really claim to be an American. And yet, I cannot deny that I am sympathetic with the American system of government and constitution.

The way I resolve that, for now, is that I suspect that when Christ comes again, it will be obvious that every system man has invented to run the world has been discredited, so that when He creates a new heaven and new earth, no one can say, “Well, God didn’t need to intervene: all we needed was to have a government set up like so”. In Isaiah 60, all the nations are symbolically taken through the streets of the New Jerusalem in chains, to say that they will all be defeated. This means that ultimately the American form of Constitutional Republic is also fatally flawed, though I do not know how. And only by it being followed to its ultimate conclusion will I, and everyone else, know how it is flawed. It’s like teaching math (I’m a math professor). Sometimes when a student has a misconception, you have to lead the student down the path that the misconception lays down, to the point where the student recognizes what is wrong with that way of thinking. Just saying it won’t work is not effective.

That being said, we are to be a force for justice, righteousness, and mercy in the world, and if the political process allows us to act in that way, we should.

>>An interesting book to look at is by D. Frank, “Less than conquerors”.
>Thanks…I’ll check it out if I can find it

It’s unfortunately out of print, but you can find used copies online. The book came out in the 1980s. Prior to the late 1970s, Evangelicals were used to thinking of themselves as an embattled minority, sidelined to the margins. Suddenly, though, Evangelicals found themselves being courted by politicians and featured in the media. Puzzled, many Evangelical thinkers looked to the 19th century for guidance: another time when Evangelicals were in ascendancy and indeed did influence politics tremendously. Frank’s point is that the story of the 19th century was not a story of triumph, but of apostasy and failure. Christ calls us to power not by force, but power by the cross, submission to evil authority, and Paul calls us “more than conquerors” even though we suffer. But the 19th century Evangelicals took the bull by the horns and tried to use the government to advance the Kingdom of God, perhaps falling prey to Satan’s temptation, “All the kingdoms of the world I will give to you if you bow down to me”. As a result, Evangelicals became “Less than Conquerors”, and by 1900, were utterly defeated.

Kevin

>The big question is, “what do they mean by Christian worldview”?

By Christian Worldview, they mean Biblical worldview. But we have to be sure to use the whole counsel of God to shape and guide us. The church runs into problems when they are not balanced and focus on one aspect of God’s word at the expense of another. For example, it could be a temptation to preach God’s grace at the expense of preaching repentance - or we could focus on God’s Mercy and neglect His Holiness. If God’s word tells us about His nature, then to neglect parts of it or to not properly interpret it is to mischaracterize God. We see that in our society today as so many people have an unbiblical view of who God is.

>I find it difficult to think that God’s message to the world is something that is so small, it would fit in my point of view. My challenge is to learn more about what God is saying through these perhaps foreign-sounding voices in the Church, and keep my ears open for what God might be saying to me.

We must be careful to test what we see, hear, and read against God’s word. If what someone is preaching or teaching is contradictory to that, then we know it is not the truth. One of the last things mentioned in the book of Revelation is the admonition from the Lord not to tamper with, or alter the meaning of His Word. Rev 22:18,19

>And yet we place such importance on our elected leaders, as if elected leadership will make us righteous.

Leaders can’t make us righteous, but their influence shouldn’t be discounted. We learn from the Bible that hardships come to a nation under poor leadership. To withdraw from politics would be ignoring the problems that result from unGodly leaders. It would be wise to elect Godly leaders, ones that respect God and understand their privileged position and that they are accountable to Him. Also, leaders can be an example to others by standing upon principle when the culture may be driven more by emotion, or interested in populist ideas. Every once in a while someone will say, “You can’t legislate morality”…that’s not the issue. Somebody’s morality will be legislated - the question is, “Who’s morality will be legislated?”

>If change is to come, it is through individual decisions to change their own behavior, not a government that tells everyone what their behavior is to be. Or at least, that is the way preached in the Sermon on the Mount.

Legislators can pass unjust laws (or unfortunately, judges may try to legislate their personal political opinions) to restrict our religious freedoms. We are blessed (not arbitrarily, but due to the faithfulness of those that have come before us) to have the freedoms we do in this country, but we can’t relax and trust that Satan and the world will not work to push back those freedoms wherever and however they can. The Bible states that we are in a spiritual battle.

>An interesting book to look at is by D. Frank, “Less than conquerors”.

Thanks…I’ll check it out if I can find it - and thanks again for the comments.

Roger

The big question is, “what do they mean by Christian worldview”? Depending on who is defining it, this could mean something that only a few Christians subscribe to, or something that most Christians would believe.

And it’s not one-dimensional. Talk to a young-earth creationist, and “Biblical worldview” would primarily focus on your views of the origins of various species. Talk to an Anabaptist, and “Biblical worldview” would connote looking at the world from a Kingdom of God point of view, standing in condemnation of the kingdoms and governments of this earth. Talk to an advocate of the poor and “Biblical worldview” would mean starting from “The first shall be last and the last shall be first”.

Truth to be told, I appreciate the fact that there are many of these voices, not all of whom I agree with. I find it difficult to think that God’s message to the world is something that is so small, it would fit in my point of view. My challenge is to learn more about what God is saying through these perhaps foreign-sounding voices in the Church, and keep my ears open for what God might be saying to me.

I would agree, by the way, that we must get beyond the call for a personal relationship with Jesus. God called His people into relationship, but for a purpose. He proclaimed Israel would be a blessing to all nations, and in the era of the Church called us, “preparing good works beforehand” for us to do. The 19th century revivalists mobilized their congregants in all sorts of projects, from abolition of slavery to feeding the poor in the inner cities to proclaiming the evils of the alcohol industry (called the “saloon industry” in those days), and so on. Henry Ward Beecher led many to Christ, but the next step was finding out what cause they would pursue.

This is the pattern found in Sheldon’s famous 1880s book, “In His Steps” that popularized the question, “What would Jesus do?”

On another note, I agree that righteousness does not come from having righteous leaders. In fact, one of the central ideas of Jesus’s ministry is that good comes from within, not without. It is not what you do before men, but what you do when no one is looking. The kingdom of God is within you. And come to think of it, Jesus came not born into Caesar’s palace, but among the poor, spreading the good news by talking to people and loving people on an individual basis.

And yet we place such importance on our elected leaders, as if elected leadership will make us righteous.

If change is to come, it is through individual decisions to change their own behavior, not a government that tells everyone what their behavior is to be. Or at least, that is the way preached in the Sermon on the Mount.

An interesting book to look at is by D. Frank, “Less than conquerors”.

Kevin